The Red Review -Frameworks are all that, with Scott Clark
In this episode, Jeremy is joined by Framework Director and Account Management leader Scott Clark to talk all things framework management. They cover approaches to landing, mobilising, and managing frameworks effectively, how to grow frameworks and drive business growth through them, and the role of bids and proposals people in leveraging frameworks and getting up the funnel.
Find Scott on LinkedIn - Scott Clark
Transcript
[00:00.9]
Welcome to the Red Review with me, Jeremy Brim. The Red Review is brought to you by Growth Ignition, the transformation and capability development business, all in the work winning space and the bid toolkit, its product set in bid process and training videos. So, welcome to the Red Review with me, Jeremy Brim.
[00:20.6]
Sorry there's been a bit of a break. We had some, episodes arranged and, people fell by the wayside, couldn't make it, so they've been delayed, all of those sorts of things. But speaking of which, this is an episode I've been trying to do for two or three years, I should think. So in particular we're going to talk today about Framework Management.
[00:41.1]
It's kind of intersection with business growth strategy and key account management. So sort of further up the funnel, but particularly I think later, how proposals people might play a role in that. But I'm joined by my friend, Scott Clark. Hi Scott. Yeah, hi Jeremy.
[00:57.8]
Yeah, we finally got there. Fantastic to be here. Thank you for making the time, mate. So, yeah, this one's a really interesting one for the audience that we have of largely bids, proposals people, but some BD people too, or up the funnel people.
[01:14.0]
So, Scott, let's do the introductions first of all. So, let us know who you are, what you get up to, where you've come from, that kind of stuff before we. To give us some context before we get into the details. Yeah, thank you for the warm welcome today, Jeremy. So I am somebody that works in the construction sector, working in the.
[01:33.4]
I've worked in tier one and tier two space, and I've developed from being a business development manager right the way up the funnel into Framework, to be a Framework director, account director, and business, development director.
[01:49.6]
And what's been fantastic about my journey today is that I'm able to pivot between each of those three. So, yeah, really interesting journey and I'm absolutely delighted to be here today. Well, thank you. No, thank you for making the time, mate.
[02:05.2]
As we said, we've been trying to get this conversation for years actually, and one reason or another, it's not quite come together. So it's good to get the chat because, Framework Management is a funny game, isn't it? There's not masses of people, in the Framework management space, but they're quite key roles.
[02:24.8]
But if you ask somebody what a Framework Manager does, people come back with very different answers. And as we were just talking off camera, the quality capability, of Framework Managers can be quite variable.
[02:41.6]
And their backgrounds and what they think framework management means can be quite variable, but it is quite a key engine room to the growth of particularly B2G businesses, where they've got big government frameworks. So, tell us.
[02:57.5]
We met at isg. So I did, I guess a year all in with isg. I got, bought in as a consultant. I ended up being the director of Winning Work for six months and then handed over to a guy who they were recruiting into that role.
[03:15.2]
And we crossed paths where, you were, were looking after some of the major frameworks and we had some interesting conversations about how you worked, because I really appreciated it and saw the value. So we won't go into what's happened to isg.
[03:32.5]
One of their problems was not winning work. So we'll move on from that bit. But it was a good experience, in how you grow things. Tell me about what you think framework management is and perhaps tell us that sort of journey where you picked that up at isg.
[03:53.2]
Transition from a business development role into that framework management Framework director piece. Yeah, thanks for that. So for me, I've always been the individual that's not just been about responding to pipeline. If you are just responding to pipeline, coming for a framework, you're going to end up spending a lot of money and it's not an efficient use of any business's time.
[04:14.7]
So number one rule is don't respond to everything and don't ask the question, at the framework launch of what's the pipeline? Absolutely not. So for me, framework management is a much broader, skill set.
[04:30.5]
So if you are looking at bringing salespeople into that environment, you need to be thinking about business improvement, framework, rebid proposals, management. How are you going to support your people internally, how can you support externally?
[04:45.6]
So for me, I organise things into buckets. As I say, I'm the man with a workable plan. So for me, the bit, the number one thing that I needed to understand when I picked up one particular framework at ISG was how the interface of that framework was going to work within the business.
[05:04.1]
So for that, for me it was understanding the framework, how the bids work, supporting bid teams. Because you'd be surprised, Jeremy, how many people just don't understand the key nuances of framework management. KPI reporting, and the mini bidding, isn't it?
[05:25.2]
It's the mini bidding of these schemes because they're quite particular. It depends on the framework, but some are more prescribed because obviously you're on CCS where, well, let's face it, they're lazy. And so the client's tender documents can be pretty variable, but more of the prescribed stuff, like Department for Education, where you're basically filling in the same form for every type of tender.
[05:48.2]
Or even Southern Construction Framework, where it's pretty similar. There's a lot to get out of becoming better and better at those bids and it's the framework manager's job to keep going and getting the feedback in the detail. Helping us improve and improve makes a big difference to business outcomes than just sitting there, like many do, bidding.
[06:06.5]
Everything that comes through the client's pipeline. It's, it's not about that, is it? Because there's, there's the intersection. So it's. I'm having an interesting time at the moment, largely working with building contractors, working in lots of other markets, defence stuff and all sorts of.
[06:22.6]
Spent lots of time talking about Ukraine and things quite sadly in the six months before. But in the last three months, I'm back in with the builders quite a lot, all the big tier ones who are all into business planning at the moment. And it's fascinating how variable their level of quality of what they do with that is, and, and then the intersection with how they treat frameworks.
[06:47.3]
And so one of the things that ISG were really good at with you in the heart of it, but also Morgan Sindel, maybe with old, Rob hall, who was ex ISG as well, wasn't he, on Pagabo, for instance. You realise that it's not about going to a framework meeting and feverishly writing down the pipeline that the framework thinks it has.
[07:07.2]
It's about taking opportunities to the pipe, to the Framework and being direct awarded them back, isn't it? And so there's a whole game to be played in that, isn't there, that you need to really enable. Yeah, and I've. I mean, I'm not going to talk about specific opportunities, but I was a key architect, I was a key architect in securing some of that major, major work with government clients.
[07:31.1]
So, yeah, absolutely. The bit that you have to do is really understand your framework. So, you know, support, support those strategic, objectives that the framework has. So if we think back to 2019, I think when the construction playbook started to sort of develop traction, you know, we were, we were looking at, you know, carbon reduction, we were looking at putting social value at the, at the heart of government contracting.
[08:02.1]
So, you know, what part does your organisation have to play in developing its capabilities now? And in the future. So you need to be investing in why your clients are using that framework. As a supplier, are you the supplier of choice?
[08:17.4]
Because you've just got that solution nailed. That's where framework management is much more bigger than just a sales role. You know, I sat on various working groups, but not just in the working groups, going back into the organisation and building capability.
[08:34.5]
So if I think back to some of the stuff that I did with Crown Commercial, it was around developing alliance in models, lean construction, improvement and bringing that back into the business, but also promoting that to clients that would potentially use Crown commercial.
[08:51.3]
So the MoJ utilised that as a, as a delivery model. We talked to Dio and others about the benefits of utilising, you know, those key facets in their future procurements. You know, it's about left shift, isn't it, Jeremy? We've spoken about this so many times.
[09:08.5]
Getting up the funnel, being that, that in that advisory role where you're really adding value at the, at the earliest possible opportunity. Yeah, absolutely. It's a real engine room for growth because as we were saying.
[09:23.9]
Well, the thing I've always appreciated with you, Scott, is same as me, you're a data first kind of guy. Right, let's go and do some market research. Let's go and verify that pipeline and make informed decisions top down. Because as we talk about as mates quite often when we catch up, I'm on my 13th client in a row now, where 80% of their margin comes from 20% of their clients.
[09:51.8]
When you think about that, that's mad. So they're making the lion's share of their money on a fairly small proportion of their clients. They're making a bit more money on a medium sort of tail. And then there's this long tail of clients that are doing individual bits of work or small pieces of work for where they're losing money.
[10:10.7]
And perhaps they're not tracking it effectively, but the amount of very large, well known, multi billion turnover businesses that have no idea where their profit really comes from is quite shocking considering how many people in their business and in contractors that are basically a thin prime, how many people are in their supply chain, that's mortgages and rent, you know, rely on these businesses being successful.
[10:34.3]
It's quite easy to run a mediocre business and make a reasonable and okay profit. But the performers, you know, really focus in the through business planning. They really focus on who their key accounts are landing and expanding with those adding a client or two to that list each year.
[10:55.7]
And then they'll smash their numbers to bits. I mean, I think I was, I was telling you, wasn't I? I had a bit of a LinkedIn clash with the leader of one of my competitors the other day because I'd said that proposals was just the end game. And I didn't, I wasn't being derogatory to proposals people.
[11:13.0]
What I actually meant was that proposals people are the best equipped to run campaigns in winning work. Now, I think I, I think you're an unusual BD person, Scott. I think you grew up in the wrong life. You should have, you should have been one of us.
[11:29.6]
You should have been a proposal proposals person because you're too good at writing and propositions and all that stuff to have. To have just wandered around being a BD good dude. It just happens you have a personality too. But, yeah. What do you think in terms of the, the opportunity and how.
[11:46.0]
Who should be doing this stuff? Who should be the engine room, do you think, when it, when it comes to getting up the funnel so the f. First and foremost, it has to be bought in at the, at the top of the organisation with the leadership.
[12:02.2]
That's where, you know, we've had discussions about key account management. And for me the, if, if we apply that back to a framework setting. And if, if I think back to my time when I picked up Crown Commercial and, and other frameworks and that workable plan is think about your activity short, medium and long term.
[12:25.9]
What does five years look like in terms of that growth with a. Into a new sector, for example? And we can talk about that shortly. But the real thing is what can you focus on as that real short term win? And the easiest way to do that and grow your business is through your existing customer base.
[12:45.5]
And you will be surprised how many times I ask individuals within businesses that I've worked in, how well do we really understand our customer? Where is the data, where is the feedback? Where's the customer insight piece? And it's never really there.
[13:02.5]
So the bit, the bit for me that I found quite interesting in terms of developing that account management plan for a framework was sitting down and deciding where we were going to play in the short term. So that was a market penetration strategy all day long.
[13:18.8]
We were looking at where we were already working and how could we improve that? How could we build capture plans around key pursuits? That, that was a fantastic journey and I went and played in capture as well for a little bit, which, was, was fantastic.
[13:35.6]
Around some really key opportunities. So, yeah, that's, that's really what businesses should be doing. Number one rule is focus on your existing customers because if you do that right, you don't really need to do an awful lot more in the external market, you know, chasing rainbows.
[13:53.8]
Yeah, so the bit, I guess the bit we haven't covered, that I trip across often, that's a misunderstanding. We haven't really talked about what a framework is, have we? Perhaps we should have defined that. And so just for those that aren't aware, you do get, you know, panels and things like that in the private sector where an organisation puts in place, they will run a procurement exercise to put in place a panel of consultants or suppliers that they then pull service from and maybe they just give work to those suppliers, maybe on a taxi rank basis.
[14:29.6]
You know, supplier A gets a job and then supplier B gets the next job, etc. Etc. Sometimes they mini bid, so they've done their sort of pre qualification, as it were. Sometimes they mini bid opportunities to them. But it's more, I would say it's more prevalent or the bigger procurements of these things tend to be in the public sector or the ones we're more aware of in the press.
[14:52.1]
So Crown Commercial Services are a subset of the Cabinet Office, their central government's big procurement hub. Ironically, they're not very good at it, but that's a story for another time. But they're the big engine room of procurement for government, of all types of services.
[15:07.7]
So Scott and I are both from Construction World, but they run frameworks in IT and insurance and management consulting and all sorts of things and they are mega, frameworks to be in. There's huge, billions and billions of pounds worth of work goes through these things.
[15:23.0]
But. So they're the top tier, I guess. But then there are lots of other public sector frameworks, whether they are owned by public bodies. So Southern Construction Framework was always a good heritage one in construction in the south of the country, where Hampshire Council worked with some other councils to come together to create their own framework panel of contractors and then with mini bid jobs through them.
[15:45.9]
There's now in the modern day those heritage, fully privately owned, publicly owned ones like Southern Construction Framework Scape, etc, are coming under quite heavy pressure, market share pressure from the likes of Pagabo and Procure Partnerships, who are really quite polished, very professional, great BD teams, which we should come back to, Scott, how you work with the BD teams of the framework providers in a sec one Key thing I point out to people is so all of the frameworks we've just talked about are actually zero value.
[16:25.5]
So they have, or purport to have a pipeline of work, but those pipelines also massively overlap with each other. So they're not the end client. It's not a programme of work or a programme of money.
[16:41.5]
It's just a lens or a window to access work. We just need to be clear that the DFE construction framework and their technical advisor framework is a programme of work, it's their own money. So you're mini bidding for real jobs with them and they make the decisions on it.
[16:58.0]
Whereas the other frameworks, where it's just a lens to market, they have an end client, a local authority, a health authority, a bit of central government that are the end client who will actually pay you. So there's a distinction between what I would say is a programme of work and then an actual framework and the sort of added complexity.
[17:16.2]
Scott, as we were talking about the other day, there's 10,000 lots across all of the frameworks that touch construction. Either consultancy, you know, fm, main construction, fit out, all of that kind of stuff. So there's probably too many. But we just need to make the distinction between the fact that these are just a lens to procure, in what we were talking about there, I guess.
[17:41.1]
And so that's an interesting bit, isn't it, that, if you take Pagabo, for instance, they've got some great BD people of their own, all across the country. And some of this, if you're a contractor or a consultant on one of their frameworks, it's about how you work in tandem with their people, isn't it?
[18:01.4]
Taking them with you as well? Yeah, absolutely. Because, what they require is those projects to come through the pipeline. They depend upon the contracting market to bring those opportunities to the table. So that is about working together in terms of understanding what, again, understanding what the client's key drivers are, what their issues in terms of getting through that governance piece or whether it's to support a business plan.
[18:29.1]
So it's very much the two have to come together to make these things work. And yeah, some frameworks are better at it than others. But ultimately that's the end goal, isn't it? We're all working towards that end goal, and working together to get there.
[18:47.4]
So, yeah, absolutely, you've got to be integrated into that framework team as well. You are part of that journey. And Again, it's not just about responding to tender opportunities. You have to work it hard. You got to take opportunities to it, haven't you?
[19:05.7]
Because they're, they're all in a street fight. So the, the interesting thing, I guess so if you've got at the top of a pyramid business plan, where the business is going, its objectives, key measures, you know, you've got a marketing plan that Paul, you know, helps the brand pull through opposite opportunities or position you things.
[19:25.4]
Hopefully more account based marketing, that's a bit more precision stuff. But we've done podcast episodes on that, like the one with Darren Carter. The frameworks are in that next level along with key account management. But as a business, you know, if you take isg, we're on a number of frameworks, you know, Morgan Sindle are on loads, others are on quite a few.
[19:45.3]
As a business, you've got to figure out how many do you want to be on of what flavours tactically, who do you back and what the balance is. Because the frameworks themselves are now into a heavy sort of battle of market share. They are having to pitch to clients for projects or programmes or projects that they help them procure, they're under price pressure, et cetera.
[20:09.7]
So it's how we work with them and support them. So pick which ones you want to support or what are the balance of it across the business. So it's a bit of an awkward game, isn't it, to play, I guess. Yeah, absolutely. And the advice that I would give to any organisation that is considering frameworks is don't try and get onto every single one.
[20:30.8]
The competition in frameworks is pretty high. I've seen it where that competition play out in terms of projects will come through and you'll see the same project from three framework providers. So you really have to understand the competition at the frameworks and the value that they're delivering for their clients.
[20:53.9]
Social value seemed to be a really big, big topic a couple of years ago. And that that space will ultimately change and adapt and evolve. So the, the best advice is try not to get on too many frameworks where they're competing with each other really.
[21:11.5]
Again, try and focus on that, that market piece of where does your business want to play? And then why do they utilise the frameworks that they use? Is there a, a route that that framework offers in terms of flexibility, a type of contract, a particular value that that framework brings you obviously then.
[21:32.7]
And that aligns to your business? Yeah, support that Framework, support that client. But don't get on too many frameworks. I mean I was part of a review a couple of years ago, with, with frameworks and it was a, it was a key recommendation at the time that there were, there were too many frameworks out there in the market.
[21:52.9]
So we need, we needed to consolidate that sector. Yeah, because there is a cost and an overhead attached if you're going to do it properly. And as I say you'll be much more successful or certainly much more profitable if you take the view of taking clients and projects that you've done the business development on to a framework to then be direct awarded ideally or worst case, you've shaped the opportunity with the client.
[22:18.3]
In tandem with that, you know, who are your key accounts, where's the profit going to be coming from in three years time? So there's a whole, how, how you map that together in your business strategy is really, really super important. And, and some of that might be how you might have a flavour as you mentioned sectors.
[22:35.4]
Scott, you know, when we were at isg, you know we got them big into moj and people like Kate Ribey have gone and absolutely run with that, done a great job. Of course we were part of that first big prison as part of that first alliance, the capture of that, which went reasonably well.
[22:52.6]
But of course we were looking at DIO and defence work and what was the right framework to be on and all of that stuff in that game. So you can select frameworks that have better exposure to certain sectors you want to enter as part of a go to market entry strategy.
[23:12.6]
There's quite a lot of dynamics at play, isn't there? Strategically? Yeah, absolutely. And again understanding your framework and the clients that are utilising that framework is important. So we at the time, ISG identified that the biggest spender of the lifetime of the brown commercial services framework was going to be the MOD or Dio.
[23:36.2]
So we developed a market entry strategy into defence. It made sense. There was a lot of alignment with the moj. And that for me was probably one of the most exciting points in my career. We brought in strategic advisors, we built a governance structure, we built market intelligence.
[23:59.3]
And we decided, you know, which, you know, what did that look like that journey with, with that client in that area over a five year period we knew exactly which, which work types we wanted to go for. And we, we just developed that, that market entry strategy and it was really successful.
[24:19.2]
We were, you know, we secured some Key bids and some key opportunities and you know that, that that sector unfortunately is not gonna, is not gonna roll on at isg. But you know, some great people came in to support that sector. And, and, and that strategy moving forward.
[24:35.9]
I really enjoyed that. It was. Yeah, it was fantastic. Good fun, wasn't it? So where's this all going in the future? So we've got, you know, New Procurement act, should give us more opportunity to engage frameworks before rebids or bids for them, help shape them, that sort of stuff.
[24:59.9]
So we should look at what was in their tender documents last time when we bid it or others bid it, help try and shape their thinking. They should do more and more engagement pre bid to shape lotting structures and things like that, as the DFE are at the moment for their school stuff.
[25:17.2]
Teaming's an interesting one, isn't it? So we're seeing more and more particularly for cram commercial services frameworks, companies coming together to bid these things. So either one acting as a prime and having a supply chain or even you saw last time around, I think, for the more health focused CCS1 Wilmot Dixon came together with Mace to bid that, together, which you'd normally never think of two large building contractors sort of being grown up enough to play nicely.
[25:50.9]
But it's actually gone really well from what I understand, because there are only so many places on these frameworks. So do you de risk the chance of not getting on by partnering with someone that perhaps fits nicely in terms of geography or strengths or whatever it might be?
[26:06.3]
It's an interesting space, isn't it? It's changing world. Yeah. And it creates new opportunities and new offers to the markets and the clients, utilising those frameworks as well. I'm all for it. What's really important is that if that is something that you would look to do in terms of a jv, you have to start that journey with partners really early days.
[26:29.2]
We all have different cultures and ways that our business operates commercially. We need to understand where we sit. Almost a way of working document or you have to go through that journey really early days, because you don't want to jump into a framework, get on it and then all of a sudden you're fighting over a particular territory or, a particular project type.
[26:56.4]
You have to really make sure you understand what your organisation is going to do in that framework and not, And unfortunately sometimes you do miss out. But yeah, really good opportunity. It's a different way of thinking.
[27:14.4]
But if you're doing your research. Your research should tell you that you're not the strongest person to bid that lot or that framework on your own. So, yeah, align as early as possible. Yeah, I would absolutely agree with that. Particularly if you're looking for a big 50, 50 sort of JV or partnership, getting aligned and really getting in.
[27:36.6]
I've seen some absolutely massive howlers in the last couple of years of where parties have tried to come together, bid a pilot scheme before a big framework comes out and it's just not gone well. So they realise that actually one of the parties is far more expensive at one bit or carries much bigger overhead or something that's going to affect your ability to win.
[27:58.0]
So, that's quite a big deal. But the other thing is, if you're a smaller business, I've got friends who are in sort of Tier 2 consultancies that just find a prime and partner with them. You know, there is.
[28:13.9]
Just think about it. I. I do have a school of thought because I've got 100 win rate for CCS bids. I've won Management Consulting 3 and Construction Services and construction ones and MMC ones. And so do I go and bid them on my own as a thin prime and take a supply chain with me, create an umbrella organisation, and create a business out of that?
[28:40.0]
I don't know. It's an. It's an interesting idea. I think I won't pass the financial, restrictions. I need to. Someone keeps. One of my mates keeps telling me I need to fill out the spreadsheet of, the sort of financial calculator on what, what you need to have in terms of balance sheet and things.
[28:55.7]
I don't. I don't think my business is at the races, but, I sometimes wind up some of my mates by saying, well, I'll just bid against you on my own. We'll see. But there is a place for SMEs. In fact, it's very important that SMEs are in the supply chain for these things. If, if government are going to go down these fewer places on longer frameworks like ccs seem to be getting into teams and doing that really early is super important because I've had to do some workshops with people recently where they just hadn't even thought about it and, it's not clever.
[29:29.1]
And another bit to add to that, Jeremy, is do organisations really understand what their value proposition is? Do they understand which parts of their business are really good? So if you're going to bit of framework with a JV partner.
[29:44.9]
What does that offer look like? Who brings. I'm just thinking back to an alliance day At the moj, we clearly saw the strengths that the others brought way beyond what ISG brought to the table.
[30:01.3]
And it's about delivering client solutions and it's who should be the lead of that particular facet. Let them run with it, but really understand what your value is back to your customers. Yeah, we have quite big problems with clients in that space, with politics, with a small piece of.
[30:23.1]
Of, They don't want to admit that one part of their business is weaker than another they want to put forward. Oh, we can do everything, but actually the competitors are stronger at one part. You're better. So, for instance, Mason, Turner and Townsend in the defence world years ago realised they were taking work off each other and getting the wrong bit.
[30:44.0]
One's better at cost, one's better at project management, so why not joint venture it make sure we both get on or win this work. So they won the big cost partner role, delivery partner role with Dio, didn't they, as a jv. And it was a really smart move. So being grown up about this stuff, most organisations don't do that.
[31:02.2]
They don't want to partner, don't want to admit one bit's weaker than another and they end up with nothing of nothing rather than something of something. So it's not. It's not good strategy. You're right. The value proposition thing's interesting. Again, I've got another client at the moment who think they've got 110 key accounts.
[31:24.0]
We can't have. No. Can you? Well, for starters, you need a board member to review every one of those plans for at least 30, minutes every month. So how many board members have you got? How many hours in the day have they got? Are they going to do this full time?
[31:40.9]
So no, you've probably got five to start with, maybe 20 tops. And those 20 are probably doing 80% of your margin anyway. We tend to find. So focus is absolutely everything, isn't it? And then off the back of that, what is your proposition to those focused markets and clients that you can take through that framework, through that lens?
[32:04.0]
And what's the proposition to the framework providers? Because the framework providers, at the end of the day are taking a percentage. They want contractors or suppliers or partners that can bring work to the framework, make them look good, deliver well for clients, and so you need to have a proposition to them that shows what you're going to bring to the party.
[32:26.1]
Absolutely. And one of the, once you get past you've got on a framework and you're in that sort of celebration mode, the, the first thing that I always think about is that rebid from, from, from day one and then that starts to then relook at the account management process that you're going to put around that framework, how you're going to manage the framework, what's new, what's that lessons learned piece that you can bring in from the old framework and other frameworks as well.
[32:59.1]
So yeah, it's really important. Yeah, that's really prudent. Almost nobody does that, do they? With any form of contract that has a rebid date in the future, they just wait until the last six months and panic, when actually from day one you can build an, execute a plan to keep seeding ideas to keep.
[33:20.7]
So you don't. Because you don't want your rebid document to be a surprise to them, do you? You want to be seeding what, what, how you would help them improve. Yeah, absolutely. I mean I, I just think back to some of the teams that I've worked with over the years.
[33:37.1]
I sort of hold back on the. Particularly within the first three months of a framework going live talking about rebid. We've all been there, we've all been through the battles and you lay in a dark room after you've submitted what you think is a fantastic framework bid.
[33:54.8]
But yeah, you need to have that in your sights. You need that built into your plan of your framework fundamentally. To move forward and re secure your position. Everybody wants to be number one. You know, you've got to work really hard to maintain that position as number one or to beat the competition to get up to number one.
[34:16.3]
Yeah, because there's that whole KPI game isn't there in delivery. The business needs to be delivering through the lifetime, for you to be able to hit those KPIs and things so they help the business focus on performance. Frameworks are a really good thing for the business. All of that KPI game feels like a real ball ache at the time but actually as long as you've helped them shape the KPIs so they genuinely add value, they're useful, they're not just silly.
[34:42.2]
They drive the business to do the right things, don't they? So, so yeah, just, just to reiterate the point for my proposals, friends, as much as all of the AI businesses are you know, giving it that, oh, you know, AI is just a sidearm, and you'll all get to keep your jobs as bid writers and all that sort of stuff.
[35:00.4]
That's clearly not true. You know, CCS have already procured an AI platform to read their bids first that they receive. So it's not rocket science that we will create AI platforms that go and find the bits they're looking for and tell them the things they're looking for in an automated fashion can't be a million miles away, five or ten years away.
[35:21.6]
So, you know, there is a place for becoming an expert in using those tools as a bid writer or bidding professional, professional proposals person. But in reality, I think proposals people, bidding people are really well suited to running campaigns.
[35:39.4]
So Captcha, I talk about capture a lot and how they're the best suited people to be the project managers of Captcha be capture managers. But also I think frameworks is an interesting space and there are. I'm working with a client at the moment actually, who, who has a framework manager for one of their major frameworks who was a proposals person because they get how to win work, don't they?
[36:00.1]
I'm not saying BD people like YourHeritage Scott aren't the right people for it either. I just think there should be a contest or I think, I think proposals people should think about it as a potential route for their career that they, they want to gravitate through. Because they, they, you know, obviously they understand how to optimise the mini bids and all that sort of, sort of stuff.
[36:20.7]
But we understand how to run campaigns, which is a big part of frameworks. Right? Yeah, absolutely. And that's a skill set that I bring to Framework management. Is that workable, that workable plan? The bit around that is, yeah, there's the responding to tenders and being ready for those.
[36:46.9]
We, we've talked about that at length but it's that on. You are the architect at the centre of your organisation. I think back to my time at isg. I was working with multiple bid teams across the whole of the uk. The maturity and understanding around frameworks, was mixed.
[37:03.7]
Some parts of the business really hot, others not. So, so you have to be that internal champion of how do you build a system that embeds all that learning, continuous improvement, but can support those individuals, those bid teams, those delivery teams, at the certain life cycle point of a project, whether that be pre construction, post award.
[37:30.3]
So I spent a lot of time, Developing documents, presentations, webinars, and one to one support with people taking them on that journey. So you've got to be that, you've got to be that internal champion, you've got to be that external champion and you have to think about your framework, your internal people and your customers that are going to use that framework.
[37:54.9]
If you focus on those three key areas, get them right, you'll be successful. Yeah, I'd agree. I think I'd add the other bit you were good at. And I've seen a couple of others it's rare but a couple of others are good at is driving direct awards through these frameworks, negotiations, where you can get in earlier with the client.
[38:15.3]
You know in the construction world it's about early contractor engagement and things. But the same works in any market really. You should in your business plan have a KPI or a measure for proportion of work that's negotiated or direct awarded in the public sector and drive that stat because you generally find you're engaged by the client earlier, the work is lower risk.
[38:38.3]
You tend to do a better job, you tend to make more money as a result, the clients get better value. You know, it tends to all go a lot better. If you're direct awarded on average for everyone involved, there's huge business benefit in that.
[38:53.6]
It's part of. I've got a whole sort of campaign brewing about you know, do, do I go and work with some businesses as, as a fractional, you know, CRO or business development director where we implement that kind of strategy and how you double the margin of the business because it's not rocket science.
[39:14.6]
Figure out your business plan, proper market research behind it, get a tailwind of account based marketing pushing it through but particularly this kind of strategy around frameworks and key account management and then capture at the next level if you get all of that singing.
[39:30.1]
I've got a number of clients now where we've doubled their margin in two to three years just through that focus. Cut the tail focus on where the money's going to be in three years time. And frameworks are a key conduit but that a key enterprise in that is trying to get as many negotiations or direct awards as possible.
[39:48.0]
Yeah. And for framework, if you're in framework management or framework director role, you have to be able to pivot. The importance of that is essential. You have to then be able to put yourself in an advisory role where you really get into the, into the client's headspace, really understanding their Challenges.
[40:08.3]
And what you think is a major challenge, might not necessarily be a challenge for that client or vice versa. And it is then down to you to say, right, okay, if you consider this approach through this framework, actually we can knock six months off your programme.
[40:29.5]
Let's have a look at that pipeline of work. Actually, these people don't exist, in terms of the resources that you re, that you require to deliver this programme of work in that amount of time. Here's another solution to that challenge.
[40:46.1]
And it's quite refreshing when, and I get a real kick out of this, is where somebody comes to one side and said, you know what? We not even thought about that. Thank you so much for the, for, for what you've provided today.
[41:01.3]
You know, you've, you've, you're the person that I'm always going to call when we need to talk about this. That the other. And that for me is what gets me out of bed in the morning. It's that advisory role that direct awards sometimes, it doesn't always result in a direct award.
[41:16.7]
You're just giving really good advice to your customer. That, that's what it's about, surely. Yeah, yeah, no, and it'll, it will position you for that competitive tender so much better because you'll understand the scope better than everyone else. You'll understand the risk better than everyone else.
[41:33.3]
So you'll, you'll be much more likely to win. Yeah, that's really interesting. So, yeah, you can use the old proactive proposals in there. You know, put a paper to the client with a hypothesis using this framework, engaging us early. We can do these things faster.
[41:49.6]
This will save you this much money. It saves you this in investment inflation, it'll be lower risk. And whatever your hypothesis is to get you in the door to get that workshop, because there's a co solutioning, we call it get a co solutioning workshop with the client as you described there, Scott. Get in the room with the client, get your key people with their key people.
[42:08.0]
And even if you don't get a direct award, what happens is you'll understand the scope better than everyone else and the risks, etc. But also your humans are spending time with their humans, building trust. So when they do come to read your bid or your proposal, if it's a negotiation, they don't even read the CVs.
[42:27.0]
They see the pictures, they move on, job done. Because they trust the people already top marks. Yeah, so sorry, I was going to say, and that's where we talk about proposals then is the end game. It's not the start.
[42:43.7]
I talk, I talk to everybody about left shift and that's the space where you can really add value. That's where, you know, business development professionals need to develop their skill sets.
[42:59.9]
Yeah, it's a really interesting space. That's where we should be spending our time. I agree. Well, good place to finish. We got there. That's the full journey of frameworks that I've been meaning to have with you for probably three years, Scott.
[43:15.4]
So thank you very much for making the time, mate. We covered some ground there. Hopefully food for thought for the audience in where they might be able to gravitate to in their careers. It's, you know, proposals is, is absolutely vital in that end game. We've got to put the ball in the net, but there's so many opportunities upstream in capture, cam.
[43:34.4]
But I, I think frameworks and how we strategize around them, manage them is really quite interesting, at the heart of the growth of the business. So thank you, mate. Great to hang out. Love to see you and, we will have another episode for the audience soon. Thank you. Thank you.
